No one has taught me more about applying the gospel to my heart in the midst of daily life than my friend David Powlison. I have benefited from dozens of outstanding journal articles he has written, from the books he has authored, and from the courses he has taught.

In May I sat down with David in the Sovereign Grace studio to discuss a short list of my favorites from among his resources. The result is an hour-long narrated bibliography of sorts.

We talked about life, his decorated athletic career at Harvard, the New York Yankees, the outrageous cost of dissertations, and some communication theory. But mostly I wanted David to explain the origin and purpose of six specific resources: two conference messages, a course, two books, and his dissertation.

You can download the 56-minute interview here (45 MB), or listen online here:



Featured resources:

• Message: “Jesus Christ Is NOT One-Size Fits All” on 1 Thessalonians 5:14, delivered at Sovereign Grace Ministries’ 2004 Pastors Conference. This message was later developed into an article, “Familial Counseling: The Paradigm for Counselor-Counselee Relationships in 1 Thessalonians 5” (The Journal of Biblical Counseling, Winter 2007).

• Message: “In the Last Analysis: Look Out for Introspection” Delivered at our 2007 Pastors Conference.

• Course: Dynamics of Biblical Change. The 1996 version is available as a set of 22 audio CDs from Westminster Bookstore. The distance education curriculum edition created in 2006 can be accessed through the website of the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation.

• Book: Seeing with New Eyes: Counseling and the Human Condition through the Lens of Scripture (274 pgs; P&R, 2003).

• Book: Speaking Truth in Love: Counsel in Community (203 pgs; New Growth, 2005).

• Dissertation: Competent to Counsel? The History of a Conservative Protestant Biblical Counseling Movement (500 pgs; New Growth, 1996). This will be re-published next year under the new title, The Biblical Counseling Movement: History and Context (New Growth, 2010).

Since January, C.J. has interviewed 17 pastors and leaders, some of whom you’ve heard of, many of whom you haven’t. Each of the men answered a series of 14 questions on topics ranging from personal devotion habits, books and reading, helpful counsel that improved their preaching and leadership, to specific areas of personal discouragement, leisure, and the like.

The initial series featured men like Wayne Grudem, John Piper, and Randy Alcorn. In the inaugural post of the series, C.J. wrote:

Over the years many pastors, leaders, and authors who have influenced my life have also become my friends. I marvel at and am humbled by this fact. And while I am always eager to promote these men and draw attention to their writings and teachings, too often these friends are known primarily for their public ministry.

I know from personal experience that these men have much to teach us from their private lives. So on this blog I want to occasionally interview these men, ask them questions to draw out their personal example, and introduce you to a private side of them you possibly have not seen.

To date C.J. has interviewed the following eight men:

• Wayne Grudem
• Mark Dever
• John Piper
• Thabiti Anyabwile
• Ligon Duncan
• Jerry Bridges 
• David Powlison
• Randy Alcorn
  

Meet “Ordinary” Pastors

The initial series was expanded to include interviews with “ordinary” pastors, men serving in local churches within Sovereign Grace Ministries. In the series introduction C.J. wrote:

Pastoral ministry should never be romanticized. It is heavy labor. One hour in the pulpit is like eight hours with a jackhammer.…These men labor diligently and faithfully each day serving those entrusted to their care. But there is nothing ordinary about these men (or anyone serving in pastoral ministry).…These extra-ordinary men are my heroes, men I deeply love and respect, men I seek to learn from.

To learn from their pastoral experience, C.J. interviewed the following nine “ordinary” pastors:

• Mickey Connolly
• Carlos Contreras
• Bill Kittrell
• Mark Altrogge
• Gareth Lloyd
• Grady Van Wright
• Mike Pierson
• Pete Greasley
• Billy Raies
  

Although these interviews were primarily developed for the benefit of other pastors, in many ways they are relevant to the lives of all Christians. The interviews are all indexed together here in hopes of making them more accessible.

Welcome back to the conclusion of my interview with Billy Raies, senior pastor of Christian Life Center in Midland, Texas. You can read part one here and part two here.

Billy, what single bit of counsel has made the most significant difference in your leadership?

My precious dad would often tell me—and model for me—the phrase, “they won’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” As such, I pray that the counsel of the following portions of Scripture will become living realities in my leadership: “he who has been forgiven much loves much” (Luke 7:47); “greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friend” (John 15:13); “they will know you are my disciples if you love one another” (John 13:35); and “Do you love Me? … feed my sheep” (John 21:17).

Where in ministry are you most regularly tempted to discouragement?

In my personal life there are two.

The first is in the realm of my deficiencies and sins that contend with my being the husband and dad that I aspire to be. When everything is said and done, I would love it if my wife and boys could say that I was a better husband and father than I was a pastor.

I battle with the second area on Sunday afternoons in replaying the morning’s preaching and witness over in my mind. I can bounce back and forth between being dissatisfied in the sense of practical ways that I could have done better versus being discouraged over my “performance” and how others might have perceived me. The war between wanting to instruct vs. wanting to impress can be fierce and discouraging. Now you know why I am reading Lou Priolo’s book Pleasing People!

In my pastoral life, nothing breaks my heart like a broken family, and nothing thrills me more than to see a family restored by the gospel and reflecting the gospel through their marriage.

Do you exercise? If so, what do you do? If not, why not? (Please be specific.)

Is it a sign of sinful pride to be defensive in giving an answer? Here is my specific answer…I am currently not exercising. My reason? I guess it would be laziness, love of ease, and now that you have me thinking about it, apparently a lack of love for my family in being a better steward of my health. Ouch. Why don’t we go to the next question... this is starting to look like what an ordinary pastor should not be!

Currently, what sport do you like to play and/or watch?

I play about 6–8 rounds of golf a year depending on schedule, who may be visiting from out of town, and whether or not it is baseball season for my sons (they refuse to play golf with me then because they don’t want to mess up their baseball swing!). The only other times I play is when I am practicing baseball with them or helping coach basketball. I enjoy watching baseball, basketball, and football during the post season and championships.

What do you do for leisure?

I love the mountains and fishing, but don’t get to do either often. This other answer may sound pretty corny, but I derive a great deal of joy out of the laughter of Jan and the boys and still get a thrill out of holding my wife’s hand.

If you were not in ministry, what occupational path would you have chosen?

Childhood dream: major league baseball player.

In the real world: If I were not a pastor I think I would have ended up teaching high school or jr. high and coaching baseball.

Billy, I’m grateful for the joy you derive from the laughter of your wife and thrill you still receive from holding her hand. Thanks for your example as a husband, father, and pastor.

Welcome back to my interview with Billy Raies, senior pastor of Christian Life Center in Midland, Texas. You can read part one here.

Billy, if you could study under any theologian in church history (excluding those men in Scripture) who would it be and why?

Charles Spurgeon.

When I read Lectures to My Students I found myself wanting to enroll in his Pastors College. I wanted to learn how to examine each text and find in it a short cut to Christ and the cross. I so appreciate his courage to stand up for the gospel in the Downgrade Controversy, including his resignation and then censure from the Baptist Union. It would have been something to watch the life of a man who stayed true to biblical conviction and Christ-centered preaching even though there was not necessarily an immediate “reward” for taking such a stand. How awesome it would have been to observe a man who lived for the glory of God and not the approval of man. Providential history would vindicate the righteousness of his stand, but Spurgeon would not live to see it.

There would be so much to learn from a man who truly believed that the Lord was his inheritance and that honoring him was its own reward. His example motivates me to learn more about how sound doctrine should mold my demeanor. I long for a greater display of joy and grace during times of trial. Dear Mr. Spurgeon’s life has helped me much in that pursuit.

What single piece of counsel (or constructive criticism) has most improved your preaching?

Please allow me to use the dinner table to illustrate the most constructive criticism that I have received about my preaching.

Do you know how you feel when you have overeaten? Each course of the meal may have been fantastic, but there was just too much of it. The result is that you are left feeling lethargic—definitely not energized to turn the world upside down. Others have helped me to see that one of my biggest problems in serving God’s Word to our church is that I just try to serve too much of it in one sitting. (In fact, too often, just the appetizer, or introduction, has been a meal in itself in either being too long or too extensive a review of the prior message, or an introduction layered on top of another introduction!)

One of the best reminders to help me avoid this error was provided by Jeff Purswell who said,

…we can misconstrue the preaching task as primarily or exclusively one of data transfer…the goal of preaching is not informational, it’s transformational. Your goal is not downloading data to your people, but exposing them to the text so the text can transform their lives.

Thank you so much Jeff!

This has helped me pray that folks would leave our services satisfied in God, hungry for more, and strengthened to do his will.

What books on preaching, or examples of it, have you found most influential in your own preaching?

The Supremacy of God in Preaching by John Piper. It always brings fresh inspiration to communicate God’s Word with the precision, passion, and prayerfulness that the text demands and deserves.

Bryan Chapell’s Christ-Centered Preaching has been very helpful in framing the structure and focus of the sermon.

The one sermon that has most influenced my sermons is Mike Bullmore’s “The Functional Centrality of the Gospel.” This message wonderfully envisioned me to see the need for my sermons to contain not only the saving aspects of the gospel, but also the sustaining, day-to-day applications of the gospel.

What single bit of counsel has made the most significant difference in your effective use of time?

Arrrghhh! Oh to be more skilled in the effective use of time! I was very much helped when I first entered vocational ministry in hearing a pastor say, “In all of your praying, don’t forget that the best posture for administrating the church is upon your knees. There should be a proportional relationship between prayer and the number of items on your to-do list. Don’t minimize your prayer time when your projects are demanding that you maximize their time.”

Simple thoughts such as “if you are going to add a new responsibility, you need to either drop, delegate, or delay an existing responsibility” and “do the tasks that most intimidate your soul early in the morning after prayer” have been helpful.

C.J., I would encourage everyone to read your posts on biblical productivity (time management, procrastination, etc.) as they are outstanding.

Thanks for the encouragement, Billy. I appreciate it.

Please join me next time for the third and final part of my interview with my friend Billy Raies.

Meet Billy Raies.

Billy has served as the senior pastor of Christian Life Center in Midland, Texas, for 16 years. Billy and his wife, Jan, have been married for 23 years and have three sons: Will (17), Micah (15), and Joshua (11).

So what did his father teach him about pastoral ministry? And in what ways does he struggle with discouragement as a husband, father, and pastor? Let’s find out.

Hello, Billy! Please describe your morning devotions. What time do you wake up in the morning? How much time do you spend reading, meditating, praying, etc.? What are you presently reading?

In the words of that “great” theologian Dennis the Menace, “I love the mornings because the day has not been used yet!”

In order to try to use my day well, I wake up anywhere between 5:15 to 7:00, depending on the day.

My morning devotions currently utilize D.A. Carson’s For the Love of God as well as Anthony Selvaggio’s A Proverbs Driven Life. Carson’s book helps me in two ways. It helps me see the bigger picture, or the panorama of God’s character and man’s need for God by reading larger chunks of Scripture each day. In addition, Carson helps me focus and meditate on a more specific point of Scripture through the devotional he provides each day on one of the chapters. Selvaggio’s book is helping me spend more thoughtful time in Proverbs as my heart is feeling the weight of the need for much more wisdom as a husband, a dad, and a pastor.

While reading the chunks of Scripture, I try to make a journal note of recurring themes (for about 20 minutes). When I focus on the one chapter of Scripture, I try to spend about half my time reading and journaling about the passage (10–15 minutes), and the other half of my time praying specifically in response to those Scriptures (10–15 minutes). I take the rest of the time (approx. 30 minutes) to pray for my wife and sons, for our church (both individual people and mission), and for specific folks that I have recently met in our community who do not appear to know the love of Christ.

By the time I start “using the day” I hope to do so with a thankful and compassionate heart.

What book(s) are you currently reading in these three categories: (a) for your soul, (b) for pastoral ministry, or (c) for personal enjoyment?

(A) For my soul: Pleasing People: How Not to Be An ‘Approval Junkie’ by Lou Priolo to help me steer clear from the constant snares of the fear of man.

(B) For pastoral ministry: Finally Alive by John Piper out of concern for the people that live in our region of the country. There is such a skewed idea of what it means to be a Christian and this book is stirring me to be a better steward of the gospel as well as to pray for what best might be called an “awakening” unto salvation for all those who are presumptively saved rather than biblically saved. In addition I am re-reading The Deliberate Church by Mark Dever to better grasp and implement a healthy church structure in union with healthy church doctrine. I am also reading How People Change by Timothy Lane and Paul Tripp in accord with an ongoing desire to help the church apply the Scriptures to their lives. We want them to be able to put tennis shoes on sound doctrine so that they can run with it!

(C) For enjoyment: The good ol’ sports page.

Apart from Scripture, what book do you most frequently re-read and why?

There are several that I have re-read: Spiritual Leadership by J. Oswald Sanders. I come away freshly convicted and inspired to guard the deposit that has been entrusted to me through my reading, prayer, associations, use of time, pursuit of humility, discipleship, etc. It is written in a devotional style, is fast moving and helps me quickly remember the many facets of godly leadership.

A Gospel Primer for Christians by Milton Vincent. This has been such a wonderful little book to help me preach the gospel to myself every day.

Love That Lasts by Gary and Betsy Ricucci. Since it was first published, this wonderful book has helped keep me more gospel centered in my marriage and counseling.

Spiritual Disciplines by Donald Whitney. We just took the church through this study and it has to be one of the most helpful books to re-read so as to promote enduring intimacy with God.

When you finish a book, what system have you developed in order to remember and reference that book in the future?

I don’t have much of a system. I use the margins to create my own “important points outline” to help me recall what I have learned, points of conviction, places where I need to make application, cross ref. Scriptures, highlight quotes and their themes, etc.

Join me next time for the second part of my interview with my friend, Billy Raies.

Welcome back to the final portion of my interview with Pete Greasley, senior pastor of Christchurch in Newport, Wales. You can read part one here and part two here.

Pete, where in ministry are you most regularly tempted to discouragement?

I can’t imagine any man having the privilege to serve a finer group of people than the wonderful folk of Christchurch. My greatest discouragement is when I take my eyes off the grace of God and grieve over how they deserve someone better to serve them! This has been a genuine battle for me at times; but God, through many means of grace, most especially my wife and colleagues, has ‘strengthened my feeble knees’ and I’ve become aware again that His power is perfected in my weakness.

Do you exercise? If so, what do you do? If not, why not? (Please be specific.)

I have a few health issues that make it difficult for me to follow an exercise routine that even borders on the strenuous! However, Jen and I walk some when we can and I get in the odd round of golf, so long as it’s on the flat!

Currently, what sport do you like to play and/or watch?

As said, I like to play the odd round of golf; but I’m completely useless! Fortunately, the men with whom I play golf are even worse than I! It’s a pathetic sight.

As for watching sport: truth is, I hate it! I can’t believe the amount of time my normally intelligent and hard working friends give to watching, and then tediously discussing, the football!  I do find myself thinking “so what?” They tell me I’ve a vital neuron missing and will continue to pray for revelation to open up to me, but I’m not convinced. I think it’s a serious time-waster.

Sport watched in the past 12 months:

Ryder Cup highlights: 1 hour 20 minutes

Ireland v Wales Rugby:  40 minutes (only one half, and that was because I’d made a rash vow concerning carrying Bob Mc Cann through the church on my shoulders if Ireland won the Grand Slam. They did…I didn’t!)

Total sport watched = 2 hours/annum. And I’ll attempt to half that in the next 12 months.

What do you do for leisure?

Prior to the children leaving home, we would spend many hours in the music room singing and playing instruments (all our kids are musicians). I still play for pleasure, but miss ‘the band’!

Jenny and I are very blessed to have a small 300-year-old cottage on the coast in West Wales. We frequently head down there together after the Sunday gathering and spend our day off on Monday rummaging around old antique shops and, in the summer, sailing the bay in my beautiful (albeit rather dangerous) fishing boat.

I also have a bit of a passion for horology. I buy broken old 19th century pocket watches and endeavor to restore them to their former glory. It’s a wonderful thing to see an old watch that hasn’t ticked for, what could be over a century, start to live again. The contrary is also true; I’ve killed a few watches that have been ticking away for centuries until they met me; I am the Newport watch-murderer.

If you were not in ministry, what occupational path would you have chosen?

Prior to taking up a full-time pastoral position 24 years ago, I was involved in starting up a small company that trained folk in computing and the setting up of new computer hardware systems in many companies.

If I were not in ministry I may have continued with this; computers have certainly become popular in the last quarter of a century!

I’d say so! … My friend, thank you for taking time to answer these questions!

Welcome back to my interview with Pete Greasley, senior pastor of Christchurch in Newport, Wales. You can read part one here.

Pete, if you could study under any theologian in church history (excluding those men in Scripture) who would it be and why?

Hmm; probably Calvin because of his extensive grasp of seemingly everything in a way it hadn’t been understood since the apostles!

Also, although he’s not really a hard line theologian, I would have loved the opportunity to hang at the Bird and Baby in Oxford with Lewis and the rest of the Inklings, just to hear how they processed and thought through the tough questions. (I’ve spent some time there with my friend Jeff Purswell and we tried to recreate the scene…but unfortunately there was only one great mind in the room; and it wasn’t mine!)

What single piece of counsel (or constructive criticism) has most improved your preaching?

My wife Jenny: ‘When you’ve said what you need to say, shut up!’

Also three quotes from Mr. Spurgeon:

“It is better to fail attempting the right subject, than to succeed in the wrong; and the right subject is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. To even attempt that subject is a noble thing in itself.”

“I am content to live and die as a mere repeater of scriptural teaching, as a person who has thought out nothing and invented nothing, as one who never thought invention to be any part of his calling, but who concluded that he was simply to be a mouth for God to the people, mourning that anything of his own should come between.”

“I always feel that I have not done my duty as a preacher of the gospel if I go out of this pulpit without having clearly set before sinners the gospel. I sometimes think that you have so often and so long heard me tell this story, that you will get weary of it; but I cannot help it if you do—I had better weary you than be false to my charge.”

What books on preaching, or examples of it, have you found most influential in your own preaching?

Christ-Centered Preaching by Bryan Chapell

The Sacred Anointing: The Preaching of Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones by Tony Sargent

Preach the Word: Essays on Expository Preaching edited by Leland Ryken and Todd Wilson

I like to listen to our friend Mike Bullmore every week online. I’m trying to learn substance with brevity; he’s a great example that I want to imitate.

What single bit of counsel has made the most significant difference in your effective use of time?

When I started work at 16, my father, knowing me to be the laziest boy he’d ever come across, bought me a wall plaque to take with me into work. It just said in bold letters “DO IT NOW!” It’s been helpful advice, though not always heeded!

What single bit of counsel has made the most significant difference in your leadership?

No single piece of counsel comes to mind, but I think a message that you, C.J., brought a number of years ago from 1 Corinthians 1 on Paul’s confidence in the grace of God towards the Corinthians [“Grace and the Adventure of Leadership”], probably impacted me and has remained with me more than anything else of which I’m aware in terms of leadership. If Paul can give thanks for them and have confidence in God’s grace towards them, then I can do the same.

Join me next time for the third and final part of my interview with my friend, Pete Greasley.

Meet Pete Greasley.

My friend Pete is a jolly Englishman, an erstwhile rock musician, and a would-be sailor, who serves Sovereign Grace Ministries by traveling to Asia, Europe, Africa, and Australia preaching the gospel and serving churches for the glory of God. And today you get to meet him.

Peter is based out of Christchurch in Newport, Wales, where he has served as senior pastor for 14 years. He and his wife Jenny have been married for 26 years and have been blessed with three children.

So how does Peter order his devotional time? What does he do for fun? Why the distain for watching sports on television? Why does he collect old, broken watches? Let’s find out.

Pete, please describe your morning devotions. What time do you wake up in the morning? How much time do you spend reading, meditating, praying, etc.? What are you presently reading?

I wake at different times, all dependent upon what time I get to bed! I’ve never required a lot of sleep; if I get to bed at midnight then I’m normally wide awake around 5:00 am. Sometimes I’ll get up right away, but if it’s been a late night, I’ll lie there for a little while so as not to disturb my long-suffering wife who needs more sleep than I!

My mornings have been going through a change recently. In the past, I was regularly spending around 30 to 40 minutes in my devotions and then spending much longer on emails before heading to the office. This wasn’t working; I was arriving at the office more aware of my workload than the Savior, so I determined to not switch on my computer for the first two hours after I woke (bit of an Edwards’ like ‘resolution’). This has proved fruitful for me. Rather than ‘getting through my devotions’ in order to ‘get on with business’, I have far longer to read, think, pray and ponder. The emails still get done; but they no longer take the priority of time. God has been kind to me in this.

My devotional reading consists of three things:

Reading scripture. I’ll just spend some time reading through a book. I try to alternate between Old and New Testaments.

Reading books that will help my soul. At present I’m reading Jesus, Keep Me Near the Cross edited by Nancy Guthrie; Whiter than Snow by Paul Tripp and re-reading The Bruised Reed by Richard Sibbes; The Great Exchange by Jerry Bridges and Bob Bevington.

I always spend time in the scripture from which I’m preaching the following Sunday. This helps me to meditate upon it and live in it prior to preparing the message or going to any commentaries, which I do on Friday and Saturday.

What book(s) are you currently reading in these three categories: (a) for your soul, (b) for pastoral ministry, (c) or for personal enjoyment?

Books for my soul are the ones mentioned above. Together with these I spend most time with my dear friend Mr. Spurgeon. How I love him!

I’ve four books on the go at the moment: The Great Work of the Gospel by John Ensor; The Future of Justification by John Piper; Simple Church by Rainer and Geiger; and Minority Report by Carl Trueman.

I like to read histories and biographies. I’m on volume 3 of Simon Shama’s History of Britain; The Calvinistic Methodist Fathers of Wales by John Morgan Jones and William Morgan (a gift from C.J.); Somme Mud by E.P.F. Lynch on the experiences of an infantryman in WWI France; and The Ascent of Money by Niall Ferguson.

Apart from Scripture, what book do you most frequently re-read and why?

No one book in particular, but I always have Mr. Spurgeon to hand. Why? Because his love for the Savior at the cross together with his passion for the lost keep me on track.

When you finish a book, what system have you developed in order to remember and reference that book in the future?

Every now and then I will scan in a quote to my computer, but apart from scribbling all over my books, the truth is I’ve no decent system for reference and remembering. OK, I’m convicted…thanks for the question!

Join me next time for the second part of my interview with my friend, Pete Greasley.

Welcome back to my interview with author and speaker Randy Alcorn. You can read the first three portions of my interview here, here, and here.

Randy, do you exercise? If so, what do you do? If not, why not? (Please be specific.)

I bicycle two or three times a week, outdoors in good weather, or on a stationary bike in my office. I also play tennis two to three times a week, usually singles because it’s better exercise than doubles. In the spring I coach high school tennis so am out hitting with the guys four or five days a week. I’m an insulin-dependent diabetic and the exercise is therapy. If I go two days without exercise, I feel lousy.

Currently, what sport do you like to play and/or watch?

We watch NBA and MLB when it comes to playoffs, but not regularly. We try to watch the tennis majors when we can, especially Wimbledon and the U.S. Open.

The one sport we watch regularly from beginning to end is the NFL. Nanci is a major pro football fan. She has our kids and grandkids and our kids’ friends and their children over for Sunday night football every week, fixing up a great meal for the 15 or so who show up. When I’m asked to speak in NFL chapels, Nanci’s my main reason for saying “yes,” since tickets come with it and she loves to meet the players. We don’t generally follow college football, until last year when Bob and Pam Tebow invited us to go to Florida and stay with them and watch their son Timmy quarterback the Gators. Suddenly we were wearing blue and orange. We had a blast.

What do you do for leisure?

Tennis, biking, watching a good movie with Nanci. And I read and read and read. Every Monday night we go to our friends’ house where twelve of us, including two pastors and a church elder, gather to watch 24. We are praying that Jack Bauer will come to Jesus.

In December, my leisure consists of daily going to the mailbox hoping for the annual arrival of chocolates from my friend C.J. Mahaney. While I know it would be better by far for C.J. to depart and be with Christ, I pray God will keep him around for Carolyn and his family, and the Sovereign Grace churches; and also to keep those chocolates coming.

If you were not in ministry, what occupational path would you have chosen?

When I was in the eighth grade, a few years before I’d heard the gospel, I filled out a survey asking what I wanted to be. I said an astronomer, philosopher, or teacher. Now, if I couldn’t be a writer, I would just say a teacher, maybe at a Bible college or seminary.

Randy, thank you for your friendship and thanks for investing your time in answering these questions!

Welcome back to my interview with author and speaker Randy Alcorn. You can read part one here and part two here.

Randy, what single bit of counsel has made the most significant difference in your effective use of time?

In Charles Hummel’s booklet Tyranny of the Urgent, which I read as a young Christian 35 years ago, he said that what is urgent is often not important, and what is important is typically not urgent. It’s not urgent to spend time with God, talk with your wife, or read to your kids, but it is extremely important. It may be urgent to return someone’s call, go speak at some event, or turn in a manuscript next Thursday, but not important. (The manuscript, for instance, will likely sit in your editor’s inbox three weeks before he has time to open it.)

Years ago I developed a response to the 99% of things I have to decline:

I have to say “no” to many good things, and even some great ones, in order to be able to say “yes” to those very few things God has called me to do.

I live by this, saying “no” unless there’s a compelling reason to say “yes.” My life is very full, but that way I am free to do some things I couldn’t otherwise do (including coaching teenagers, playing with my grandkids, and hanging out with my wife).

What single bit of counsel has made the most significant difference in your leadership?

No one said it in exactly this way, but several men have said what helped me come to this way of thinking: Care about people but don’t live to please them. If you do, you’ll fail your Lord and you’ll fail people too.

As a young pastor I cared too much what people thought. The best cure for this was 20 years ago when I was repeatedly arrested and went to jail for peaceful nonviolent civil disobedience at abortion clinics. I did it because I believed God wanted me to stand up for unborn children. But it was extremely unpopular, to say the least, in Oregon, and even many Christians, including some of our church folk, disapproved. I learned to accept that. We live out our lives before the Audience of One. In the end, his approval is the one that matters. If our goal is to hear others say “Well done,” we won’t do what we need to do to hear him say it.

Where in ministry are you most regularly tempted to discouragement?

When I was a pastor, my discouragements were with people who were going nowhere spiritually, neglecting the basic spiritual disciplines, and living unfruitful lives year after year. Then, of course, there were the always-critical or easily-hurt high-maintenance folk. It was discouraging because I wanted to mentor, disciple, and shepherd, not change diapers and listen to whiners. (You wanted me to be honest, right?)

As a director of a parachurch ministry, I’m seldom discouraged in the ministry, as our staff stays on task, has a Christ-centered work ethic, and gets along well. Because I often have to withdraw in order to do my writing (I have an office behind my home, they are at the ministry office seven miles away, where I come in only once a week for prayer, sharing and lunch), I feel like I let them down by not being available as much as I want to, and used to be.

As a writer, especially on the big books such as Money, Possessions and Eternity; Dominion; Heaven; and this latest one, If God is Good…; there have been nights at 3:00 a.m. when I’m asking God, “Is this really worth it?” I feel like giving up or not going the second mile in research or doing yet another revision and seeking further critique that will create still more work for me. Sometimes the big projects feel like they will never end. But God graciously empowers me and I sense his sweet presence with me in those otherwise lonely hours.

God usually encourages me by time with Nanci, our kids, grandchildren, and our close friends. And often he encourages me with the emails that come in from people who say God used my books to change their lives. Often they come at exactly the right time, causing me to weep and renew my determination to persevere with my current writing.

Join me next time for the fourth and final part of my interview with Randy Alcorn.